The State of the Shire

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The State of the Shire

Postby caliban_tempest » Sat Jan 07, 2012 7:37 pm

Well, were having problems over here and were struggling to keep our heads above water. For the past 4 or 5 weeks its literally been 3 or 4 people who have been showing up to our park to fight. This shire is crumbling before my very eyes. We held quals/elections and have elected our new monarchy, they weren't by the book quals, we have not quite gotten to that yet, but we have elected a new prime minister and a champion. I will be carrying on for a third term as monarch as nobody would step up to the position. We also will be moving the park (yet again) as this current park is not working well for our current regular members. We will be moving to Walnut Creek, the park called Larkey Park, its large and has good freeway access. At this point I'm trying to do anything i can to prevent this whole thing from falling apart, were hanging on by a thread here. If anybody has any advice on what to do, how to keep this thing from dying, I really need it. I've tried advertising but its not seeming to work.
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Re: The State of the Shire

Postby Grimbold » Sat Jan 07, 2012 8:09 pm

Get stable at whatever park your going to play at. Have fun, no matter how small the attendance is. Remember it's winter and many folks are just staying in. Your PM could try calling folks from the list that have not come out in a month or two and tell them where the new game days are going to be also. Hope that little bit helps. Don't forget to come out to Aegir's Hall on Jan. 14th for Westmarch Day, we can chat about this some then also.
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Re: The State of the Shire

Postby Azus » Sat Jan 07, 2012 8:14 pm

If you figure it out, send me a memo ><
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Re: The State of the Shire

Postby Collin the Red » Sat Jan 07, 2012 8:16 pm

<english accent> Stiff upper old chap. </accent>
As Lord Grim was saying, all parks go through low numbers in various seasons, winter/Christmas/New Year being the worst for all of Amtgard. It is good you let us (Westmarch) know you #s issues as now we can see what we can do to help. As a newer and younger park your player base is small and your resources are minimal. So time to recruit your new Walnut Creek location. Talk to your old mentor at the high school. Talk to the PE, Social Studies, and Drama departments at your schools, both High schools and colleges.

(mild reprimand, ignore if you wish) MAKE A GOOD SHOWING AT DUNDRACON! it is now even closer to home and the last 2 years I was there I do not remember DC making a good showing. (OK I'm done)

Remember, 4 good solid members beats 10 half-assed players.

Now with one call to the grand-kids I might be able to boost you under 10 crowd by 5, but you might want to wait on them for a few more years. (Although all are garbed and armed, so watch for a mini-invasion.)

The new location (http://g.co/maps/f65su) Looks great. Nice to be MUCH closer to the highway. This will help visiting players. Only 1.1 miles from BART and 1.4 miles from the 680 SB. I hope Clan MacAbee can come visit in February before DunDraCon and see you all.

Do not get discouraged. All it takes is a solid core and a little luck and DC will grow larger and stronger that it has ever been.
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Re: The State of the Shire

Postby Azus » Sat Jan 07, 2012 8:17 pm

Random thought popped to mind - should we merge parks? Are we close enough for that to work? Regular visitations - every other week, 2-4 of us visit you guys; the other weeks you visit us?

From what I've seen, park growth requires:
1. attitude. If the populace isn't interested in recruiting / befriending new people, you're SOL. Monarchy alone wont keep new people.
2. numbers. Three awesome people on the field doesn't seem to keep new people around... I'm told magic starts at five people on the field.
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Re: The State of the Shire

Postby Collin the Red » Sat Jan 07, 2012 8:22 pm

So will it be East and West Azusistan? Or Diablo's Wyvren? Or a Cauldron of Spur? :mrgreen:

But a merger, if the logistics works out, would be better than 2 lands folding. But if both lands could help each other, and build up numbers in BOTH, that would be best for both lands, and Westmarch, and Amtgard in general.
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Re: The State of the Shire

Postby caliban_tempest » Sun Jan 08, 2012 1:53 am

@ Azus, I will bring up the merging thing with my guys, we were already talking about a monthly or bimonthly series of trips to Thor's Refuge or Aegir's Hall.
Thanks for the support guys, there have been a few moments where my remaining members were ready to up and quit all together, were all frustrated by the lack of members, and it has less to do with winter and more to do with people losing interest in our shire, we had a lot of highschool members in our shire with a lot of free time, and it seems that jobs and whatnot have slowly lead to people not wanting to come out on Saturdays. We had two people come out today who used to be regulars, even leaders in the shire, and leave within 5 minutes of showing up
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Re: The State of the Shire

Postby Azus » Sun Jan 08, 2012 10:09 am

There's always changing days...

*sigh* People's schedules made it hard for them to come to Wyvern's Spur on Sundays; so I took a poll (not a vote!) of all members and it seemed that more people would come out Saturdays, so us 2 dues paid voting members voted that way. And then people's schedules changed so that people couldn't come out Saturdays the way they thought...

Part of that schedule issue I suspect is that people found more interesting hobbies instead of Amtgard, so no matter what our day, they'd schedule other things...
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Re: The State of the Shire

Postby Hrafn » Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:29 pm

Being an adult sucks. It always and it always will. The silver lining is you're free to do as you damn well please with your own time, like eat ice cream for dinner organize stuff.

Life has kept me and the small crew we had down pretty hard. The only way to afford to have time to play on Saturdays (or Sundays) was to work on Saturday and Sunday. I'm sure you know the problem with that... But we still have other resources. I still have that plank foam because I haven't had time to make shields. Nor have I had time to really buckle down with the fabric (or buy another sewing machine!), and if I do have time, I'm the coordinator for twelve people going on a road trip to new jersey in a couple months. But I'm still thinking, still wondering how to get this to work.

Mixing the two parks is probably a good idea. If two small groups cannot sustain themselves on their resources, one larger group probably could. The hard part is swallowing your pride and taking the plunge; especially for a you, Ben. You and Bloodgood have put a lo of work into Diablo's Cauldron, it's gotta be tough thinking about handing of your baby y'know? But volunteer groups are like that. Blood and sweat, sacrifice. Little pay-off. It's a matter of integrity not payout though, and it shows character that you're still doing this despite the troubles. When I get time, I'll swing down and see if we can reintegrate. Especially since I wanna network with some folks who make good garb and armor :3

You still have my contact information, aye? I'll see what I can do to bring people in. I recently found a net group in my area who may be willing to give Amtgard a shot – if you up the garb and RP, and such.

Remember, 4 good solid members beats 10 half-assed players.


This, mate. This right here. Quality over quantity you know? Getting those 4 players decked out, rules savvy (that's a big one!) and friendly is all you need, and your park will grow.

Work on rules savvy especially though. I was surprised to find that when I was playing, only you, Bloodgood and I even read the rule book in the last six months. People were using versions of spells that didn't exist, casting them wrong, and actively leading others astray. When a player finds out that he got in trouble for something another player told him was alright, that player gets upset, and probably won't come back.

Gearing up is easy, too. You want loaners which lend towards flavor. Not sub-par construction, but not the best either; having a ready supply of weapons allows folks to try new things, but of thu want a light weapon, perfectly made, they should do it themselves. And then, that nice looking but slow and heavy staff, or axe, or flanged mace can sit on the side to encourage new folks to come up and bash folks' heads in.

And the friendly atmosphere... That's the important one. Nobody was willing to talk to each other, and some of the people were actively considering. It cooking back because they felt alienated. Remember, new members are life's blood, and as soon as you have an Old Guard reminiscing about how the game used to be, you have a group who exists to mock, deride and exclude those vital newbies. And that's terrible.
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Re: The State of the Shire

Postby Nightstar » Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:15 am

As one that has flirted with Amtgard over the years, visiting random parks all over the country due to moving, I have to say, first impressions are a big one for a group of Amtgardians.

I remember my first experiences with Amtgard, back in Phoenix, then in Kentucky. I read up on Amtgard, after being in the SCA for a bit, and wanting to get into full contact fighting, but without the need for heavy armor and serious injury, and I've always been a huge lover of fantasy and have table topped RP'd for many years. So I was expecting to go out and find a group of players in full garb, with beautiful weaponry and monsters and magic being slung about.

Well in Phoenix, I could never find the park. Their website listed a specific day and time and location and they were never there. As I found out when my wife and I were about to move from there, that they had changed places long ago, but never updated their info.

Then in Kentucky, we finally found a group (once again, they had changed parks without updating their website). So we go out there and what do we find? One older guy in full leather armor and weaponry (he was rather impressive), and half a dozen high school kids in no garb whatso ever, fighting and not even following the rules or using magic or class abilities. Not to mention, the weaponry was NOT safe (my wife almost had her jaw broke by one of the guys hitting her with a baseball swing and a foam sword wrapped so tightly in duct tape as to be a club), and fractured the guy in armor's ribs with the same hit. Yet he wasn't penalized, kicked off, or anything, but kept coming to the field, because they had so few people, they didn't want to drive anyone away.

After the above, we almost gave up on Amtgard. But our faith in Amtgard was rekindled when we moved to the Bay Area the first time and went to Wyrvern's Spur. There were people in garb, in armor, using bows, using magic, following the rules. It was pretty fun.

So what can we learn from the above? Well number one, make sure whereever you have your park info listed, that it is 100% up to date. Nothing is more frustrating then wanting to join a group and going out and not finding them. Number two, make sure you always know and follow the rules and actually use them.

And lastly, the big one I think, is playing up the roleplaying/fantasy aspect. Make sure everyone is decked out in garb, and not just tabards, but the full kit if possible. Have crafting workshops to help people build their garb and gear. Have people play monsters, get into make up and play it up. Roleplay! When actively playing, be in character at all times when on the field, and have a designated break area where people can be out of character.

So to sum up... Play Amtgard to the hilt. RP and fight. Know and follow the rules and enforce them. And always keep your park information up to date, and be there, every week. And perhaps carpool to Wyvern's Spur on Sundays and they can do the same on Saturdays?

Well, thats my two cents.
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Re: The State of the Shire

Postby caliban_tempest » Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:05 pm

I agree with everything you said nightstar, for a long time we were just a group of high schoolers in street clothes swinging pvc swords. When I was elected monarch, I tried very hard to make that push towards more garb, safer weapons, more roleplaying, and I think most of the people from the shire lost interest.

Also, when we were high schoolers we had little responsibility, but 3 years since I started playing and now people have jobs and school work they need to attend. We did just recently switch parks, and I'm still working on updating all the information so that when people go looking for us, we will be easy to find.

Right now, there is only about 3 of us, just myself, my brother, and my cousin. We went from about 10 regulars and slowly people started losing interest. I would love to be able to pull in 20+ people every week, but thats a little far fetched at the moment. I fell like people don't take us seriously because all of us are under 20, and I'm not sure how to change that, but I will not give up on DC
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Re: The State of the Shire

Postby Azus » Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:46 pm

I don't know if people always take Wyvern's Spur seriously, and we're all over 20...
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Re: The State of the Shire

Postby Nightstar » Fri Feb 10, 2012 8:28 pm

I doubt it is the age why people don't take you serious. One thing I've noticed with regards to Amtgard versus many other 'reenactment' groups is, Amtgard tends to be viewed in a less serious manner in general, and I think that might be in part due to the fact that it can be so easy to get started, as opposed to many other groups.

Take the SCA for example. They are anal about their garb and naming requirements and require a LOT of work to get into their fighting, rapier or hardsuit. Then there are the LARP groups like NERO, whom, while meeting less frequent on average, take a lot more effort into their garb. Then there are the reenactment groups like the Roman groups, whom put hours upon hours on researching their era and making their gear as authentic as possible. Whereas in Amtgard, many groups throw in a tabard or tunic, grab an easily made funnoodle sword and go at it, and stay like that for years. Then of course, there is the magic, but thats something even normal LARPers have to deal with and they do so successfully.

So I guess you could say, Amtgard's greatest strengths, are also it's greatest weaknesses.
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Re: The State of the Shire

Postby Hrafn » Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:17 am

The depth of the commitment. The jeans and t-shirt attitude is good for superficial growth, but folks feel put out when they are required to pay money for what was advertised as a free activity. It's a labor of love; the rules, the effort of fighting and learning how things go, and buying materials to make garb and weapons... Its a commitment. My more of one than just popping in halo or the like.

Interestingly, the folks I brought with me left because there was no RP and no story. I'm trying to talk them into giving it a fresh start.
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Re: The State of the Shire

Postby Etah » Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:35 pm

Hrafn wrote:Interestingly, the folks I brought with me left because there was no RP and no story. I'm trying to talk them into giving it a fresh start.


If there was no RP and no story, it was their own fault for not nurturing that aspect of the game in the park.
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